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Wednesday, March 25, 2009

I bubbled. happy now????

Yeah, well, once I misplay a couple of hands, I end up going out on the points bubble, 18 of 68, in the limit hold them extravaganza last night. ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH.

Anyway, I'm sure PirateLawyer is happy now. As a wise Alabama man said....

TuscaloosaJohn: Pirate wins The Waffle award for tonight

after I hose PL pretty bad in a pot. But we'll come back to that...

First hour was relatively uneventful... end it at 3800, 26 of 60, which for me in a LHE game is GOLD, JERRY, GOLD.

Of note...

Very first hand with QueensUp..

He raises in MP, I defend in the big blind with Ah9h.
Flop 422, two hearts. I check, he bets, I raise, he threeballs, I cap.
Turn Ac, I bet, he calls,
River 7h, I bet, he calls, shows 88, I win.

an orbit later, I raise JTo in MP, he defends his big blind....
flop T62, two spades, he check calls my bet.
turn Qh, he checkraises, I call the raise.
river Qd, he leads, I pay off and get to see AQs..... a little stronger than I expected..

I get in a couple of interesting pots with Hoyazo...
I just monkeyed off a bunch of my stack the previous hand when Hoy raises from the cutoff, I threebet from the small blind with AA, he calls.
Flop AQ3r. I lead because check-raising is kind of obvious, Hoy tanks and raises, I decide to flat and make it look like AK/KK.
Turn Kd. I lead again, Hoy raises, I threeball, he caps, and there's no freaking way he has JT here.
River blanks, I bet, Hoy calls with 33 for the flopped underset.

I doubt it plays any differently when we both flop sets on a fairly dry board - but that was nice...

Later in hour two I either soulread him, monkey calldown like a limidonk, or (probably correctly) realize that he just doesn't care that much about these tourneys and is playing loose and carefree.

Hoy raises his button at 60/120 with a 1385 stack, I defend with A9o (monkee) and a 3830 stack.
Flop Q64r, I check, he bets, I raise, he threeballs, I call.
Turn 9s, I check call now that I actually have something to show down.
River Ks, putting three spades up, but I have the As. I check call again and see Ac2c.

I manage to get up to 13 of 26 by the second break... and shortly thereafter put PirateLawyer on megatilt... before the hand history, some observations.

*PL often tries to run people over. I've seen him turn up some interesting holdings on the river given his lines.
*He was running bad at the time (had over 8K, then started pulling a Wile E. Coyote with anvils falling everywhere, and dropped below 4K by this hand.)
*He is guaranteed to steam and tilt if you ever call him down light and hit, so there's EV there.
*Since he knows I call down light, he doesn't have to have a huge, huge hand here (multi level crap) and I might have more outs than I think.

anyhow, here it is.

Full Tilt Poker Game #11318927309: Blogger Skillz Game (80235220), Table 6 - 300/600 - Limit Hold'em - 23:26:49 ET - 2009/03/24
Seat 1: Joanne1111 (2,250)
Seat 3: FishyMcDonK (2,405)
Seat 5: PirateLawyer (3,640)
Seat 6: microvillain (6,010)
Seat 7: TheCloserX5 (1,865)
Seat 8: heffmike (6,165)
Seat 9: cmitch (7,400)
TheCloserX5 posts the small blind of 150
heffmike posts the big blind of 300
The button is in seat #6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to heffmike [4c 4d]
PirateLawyer: of cour se
cmitch folds
Joanne1111 has 15 seconds left to act
Joanne1111 folds
microvillain: you have some bad luck PL
FishyMcDonK folds
PirateLawyer raises to 600
microvillain folds
TheCloserX5 folds
TuscaloosaJohn sits down
TuscaloosaJohn adds 5,673
pushmonkey72 sits down
pushmonkey72 adds 9,840
heffmike raises to 900
PirateLawyer calls 300
*** FLOP *** [7d 8c 7c]
heffmike bets 300
PirateLawyer raises to 600
heffmike raises to 900
PirateLawyer raises to 1,200
heffmike calls 300
*** TURN *** [7d 8c 7c] [5c]
heffmike checks
PirateLawyer bets 600
heffmike calls 600
*** RIVER *** [7d 8c 7c 5c] [Kc]
heffmike checks
PirateLawyer bets 600
heffmike calls 600
pushmonkey72: screw this crap i want my old table back
*** SHOW DOWN ***
PirateLawyer shows [5h 8h] two pair, Eights and Sevens
heffmike shows [4c 4d] a flush, King high
heffmike wins the pot (6,750) with a flush, King high
The limits are now 400/800
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 6,750 | Rake 0
Board: [7d 8c 7c 5c Kc]
Seat 1: Joanne1111 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: FishyMcDonK didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: PirateLawyer showed [5h 8h] and lost with two pair, Eights and Sevens
Seat 6: microvillain (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: TheCloserX5 (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 8: heffmike (big blind) showed [4c 4d] and won (6,750) with a flush, King high
Seat 9: cmitch didn't bet (folded)

heffmike: woot.
PirateLawyer: fawk off
TuscaloosaJohn: lol
heffmike: mega tilt now, i'm sure
PirateLawyer: how the !$%#@!$!@#$@#!~R$%@#@~% can you call down
PirateLawyer: moron
heffmike: I"M A MONKEY. you already know this.
heffmike: and it's limiit
PirateLawyer: expect rant
heffmike: I'm looking forward to it. you forgot, I love the implied PL/waffuls factor when I play you in a hand
PirateLawyer: sure thing

Anyhow, what was I thinking?

Preflop, well, I put PL on two cards, opening with a wide range (at least that part was right), let me take the line of a big pair and see what happens. He will call the threebet and I will need to bomb the flop to sell it and get him to fold his overcards.

Flop, I really didn't care what came down, I was going to bet/threebet it and sell the AA-QQ line.. I obviously did not expect him to cap, but by then I'm getting nine billion to one and have to call 300 more and see the turn, because threebet/folding is beyond LOL. I do have a tendency to raise/bomb flops in limit when I'm sure all a person has is a weak top pair or overcards and I can put a little bit of pressure on, regardless of what I am holding. This is why I am not a great limit player.

By the way, most sane players do not try to felt 85s on a 877 board when they've been raised or bet at every opportunity pre and post flop, because that means overpair or some kind of flush draw with overs at the very worst. So touche.

Turn is interesting. I didn't put him on a flush draw after the flop, just an overpair or a random seven. So, I figure a 6 would be good, a four obviously, and maybe clubs if he doesn't have one. Basically, I caught just enough of the board to make me pitch another bet in the pot, but I didn't want to get raised off of it, so I make an aggressive call, lol.

Yes, I realize I don't beat anything but a maniac-level bluff at this point.

River is an easy check call once I get there. Why am I calling down otherwise, if not to showdown when I hit?

I would never, never, never do this in unlimited holdthem, but in limit, well, it's only another bet, you gotta accumulate chips somehow....

And yes, I would take the same line with a lot of hands (overpairs, flush draws) that beat 85 as well, even on the turn... just so I can showdown and see how bad I sucked out.

PL can tell you all how much I suck now.

Anyhow, after this I run bad enough to get bounced on the bubble

I open raise AKo at 200/400, pushmonkey72 defends his blind with only 800 more behind, so half his stack is already in preflop.
Flop 764r, he checks, I bet, he raises, I go ahead and get it in, he shows 53o for the flopped nuts. Sigh.

Later, at 500/1000, I openraise my button with Ac2c and 6200 in chips, cmitch folds (15K), but asphnxma (11K) defends his blind.
Flop A54, two spades. he checks, I bet, he raises, I call.
Turn 9s, he leads, I fold like a donkey.

F-Train says he had KK with the Ks. That sounds right. Wow, well played, nice line.
That's one of the few Aces I would raise preflop and find a fold with postflop.
That's also what I get for folding top pair in a heads up limit hand, I guess....

So I suck, and when we get to two tables, I open raise KcQc UTG at 600/1200 and only 3500 in chips, and get called in two places.
Flop comes AK4, and I feel like I need to bet at it, since if I check fold, now I'm at 2300 in chips and in the blinds the next two hands... Naturally, I lead, highonpoker raises, I call, turns a blank, I check call all in and see A4s and bounce on the points bubble.....

Yeah, that was bad and I should just open fold there.. but I have an inherent hatred of folding my way to any kind of bubble, points or cash. I'm sure that will cost me big money down the line....

Anyway, since everyone but QueensUp bounced early tonite that was high in points... I may, may still be in fourth, and still need to pick up 100-150 points to jump up to first, but only if I am lucky... I'm running out of time and thrown away a couple of good spots to cockroach my way into 60 or 80 points. So gotta make something happen soon.

9 comments:

Shrike said...

Simple observation: when I cap the flop, I beat 22-66. Yes, you probably should fold after making the 3-bet on the flop because it's obvious I don't believe your 'story' and you're drawing to two outs or runner-runner perfect (assuming your backdoor flush is actually live).

You have some interesting ideas about how I play fixed-bet tournaments. I'll probably write up a post about that.

See you tomorrow in the Mookie.

-PL

Shrike said...

Let me try this another way. Yes, I capped here with 85ss on an 877 flop. Yes, that's probably a -EV play vs. your range. But, I can also have a seven or a higher pocket pair. You know that you only have a pair of fours and all you can beat is a maniacal stone-cold bluff (I may be many things, but a bluffing maniac in a limit hold'em tournament I'm not). You are faced with the certainty of investing 300 to call the fourth and final bet on the flop, and another 1200 to reach showdown, with the final pot reaching 6750. You are currently an 86/13 dog. Is it mathematically correct to continue, or is making the 3b/folding to a 4b idiotic?

Oh wait, math is idiotic.

Shrike said...

One more thing:

How can you have extra outs with 44 on an 877 flop just because you're playing against me? Are these secret outs I'm not aware of?

-PL

Heffmike said...

actually, it's 300 into a 4050 pot on the flop... and after the turn, to get to showdown, 1200 more into a pot of 5550 (900+900+150 preflop, 1200+1200 on the flop - counting your future turn and river bets).. so 13-1 on the flop cap and a little over 4-1 on the turn....

...which shows how deep you can get stuck in a limit pot chasing crap on the turn and river, because you price yourself in with a lot of early action.

Twodimes is nice to pull out the 87-13 number, but Pokerstove is better for this, because I'm evaluating YOUR RANGE, not your actual hand, because I can't know that until after the fact.

Standard preflop raising range, top 20% of hands.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

241,560 games 0.005 secs 48,312,000 games/sec

Board: 8c 7c 7d
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 47.904% 47.01% 00.89% 113564 2152.50 { 4c4d }
Hand 1: 52.096% 51.21% 00.89% 123691 2152.50 { 66+, A4s+, K8s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T9s, A9o+, KTo+, QTo+ }

Really tight range, top 10%

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

138,600 games 0.005 secs 27,720,000 games/sec

Board: 8c 7c 7d
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 45.083% 44.59% 00.49% 61807 677.50 { 4c4d }
Hand 1: 54.917% 54.43% 00.49% 75438 677.50 { 77+, A9s+, KTs+, QTs+, ATo+, KQo }

Only if I loosen up your range to include every version of 8x and 7x in the deck (nearly 50% of your hands) does it get as bad as you think.

264,330 games 0.015 secs 17,622,000 games/sec

Board: 8c 7c 7d
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 28.169% 27.24% 00.93% 71994 2464.00 { 4c4d }
Hand 1: 71.831% 70.90% 00.93% 187408 2464.00 { 55+, ATs+, A8s-A7s, KTs+, K8s-K7s, QTs+, Q8s-Q7s, JTs, J8s-J7s, T7s+, 97s+, 85s+, 76s, 65s, AQo+, KQo, 98o, 82o+, 72o+, 65o }

So the tighter/better you play preflop, the more I should be calling down.

I guess I respect your game more than you think.

Extra outs because you don't have to have a pair yet to cap the flop, unlike some players, and 44 could still be the best hand, silly.

Again, this isn't great play by me... but to sit there and talk about hands and lines without using ranges isn't productive at all.

SirFWALGMan said...

I love hand ranges.. it makes a stupid play seem so much better if I can put you on range 22-33. hehe. Good game Mike. Do not let PL run you over!

Shrike said...

... Don't you ultimately have to ask yourself whether I very likely have 44 beat in the actual hand in question? If I know you are prone to call down light, why would I 4-bet bluff you, of all people? A lot of your analysis and "multi-level" thinking is contradictory.

As you can probably surmise, I don't have to have a top-10 hand to open a pot. But I can beat a bluff-catcher if I put four bets in on the flop.

-PL

1Queens Up1 said...

Alright I'll bite monfrair.

I should have folded the second an A hit the turn so we can both acknowledge the turn/river calls were very weak. I had you pegged for at least the Ah and yet i donk-called to the showdown. Bad move me.

A-Qcc hand I figured you would either have me on a little tilt from said previous hand and showing that you raise with a wide range (especially on my BB) i figured I flat there to rep maybe K-J, Q-J etc etc along those lines.

Flop I couldnt picture hitting you as you capped with a nut flush draw (not saying this is wrong or right, just saying).
Q is obv good for me and if you have any underpair you may think its a bluff. The River Q was even better as it obv made you think im bluffin you maniac like.

Either way good stuff, the 8s hand affected how I played the rest of the night but it turned out ok.

lightning36 said...

Okay. Let's talk about the next hand ...

Bayne_S said...

I love watching aggro-donk on aggro-donk violence.